(Participants:  Dr. Gaury Adhikary, Dr. Alok K Bohara, Girija Gautam, Dr. Shiva Gautam, Aditya Jha, and Dr. Anup Pahari)

Transcribed by Dr. Alok K. Bohara

Professor, University of New Mexico, Bohara@unm.edu

Date and time: October 5, 2004 (9:30PM - 11:15 PM, North American Eastern Time)

[We, the NRNs (Non-Resident Nepali), are concerned about the situation in Nepal, and always try to stay informed through various means such as, Nepal forums, seminars, petition drive, and e-discussions.  Hon. Deputy Prime Minister Mr. Bharat Mohan Adhikari’s visit to Washington DC to attend the annual meeting of the World Bank and the IMF presented an opportunity to enhance such interactions. Dr. Shiva Gautam invited Mr Adhikari, and Mr. Girija Gautam moderated the teleconference to seek an update on Nepal and exchange ideas. 

The latest news highlighted a meeting of the apex peace committee with the King involving many constitutional forces.   What was the purpose of this meeting?

DPM Adhikari:          It is a relevant question.  We formed a coalition government with a set of minimum programs basically underscoring the need to reduce and stop violence, to initiate the peace process, and to hold free and fair election.

We created a peace committee to send a message about our commitment towards peace.  The fact that we invited Girija (Koirala) to join the committee further underscores this commitment. We have kept this invitation open to him. 

We have also repeatedly extended our invitation to the Maoists urging them for a dialogue.  Any positive gesture from them during the time of holidays (Dasain and Tihar) would bring much deserved relief for the people.  Lately, Prachand (the Maoist leader) seems to have shown some positive sign (towards the peace process).

G. Gautam:     Kul C. Gautam, during his recent visit to Nepal, had urged all the (warring) parties (the Maoists and the Royal Nepal Army) to pause and suspend “operations” during the holidays (Dashain and Tihar).  He had suggested that the sectors like education and health be spared.   But, his suggestions did not go anywhere. What’s your view?

DPM Adhikari           KulJi’s intention and love towards Nepal is unequivocal and everyone knows it.   I am impressed with him, and no one disputes that the sectors like the hospitals and schools should be left alone.  On our part too, we have released an union leader (Maoist), and have extended our invitation to the Maoists for a dialogue.  We don’t oppose the idea of a ceasefire, but we are of the view that the talk can proceed without a formal ceasefire.  There is no harm in initiating an informal talk and lay groundwork to create conducive environment.   The talk does not have to center around the “issues”; they can discuss the timeframe, venue, and the modality.  Small steps can help create positive environment.  

The opportunity is there to take advantage of the World Bank and other development partners’ positive gesture and their willingness to spend billions in Nepal.  We are doing our part by taking important steps:  commitment not to harm (kill) any captive rebels and looking into ways to facilitate an access (to the rebel captives).  The Maoists have to do their part too. 

G. Adhikary:  The Maoists seem determined to “go all the way” (communist republic) and not settle for a compromise.  You being an experienced leader and the fact that the Maoists themselves were once a part of your party, do you have any insight as to what it is that they want?

DPM Adhikari:  First a clarification. The Maoists did not break away from our party, UML.  They were part of the Jan Morcha (party). 

It seems that within the last two months the Maoists have begun to shift their focus of attack, and now they are targeting India (away from US and even King).  This is a big departure.  I don’t know what they are up to, but whatever it is, the resulting carnage will engulf everyone including the Maoists themselves.  I hope they will wakeup before it is too late. 

There is a growing pressure from everyone – international community, and a pressure from you (expatriates) all will also go a long way.

Bohara:  During our interview a few days ago, Dr. Mahat (State Minister for Foreign Affairs) opined that the election was essential.  The Prime Minister Deuba too emphasized election.  Your party leader Mr. Madhav Kumar Nepal, on the other hand, seems to have contradicted them by highlighting the importance of the peace process instead.  Why do you think there is this difference of opinion coming out of the coalition government?   

DPM Adhikari:  I am not aware of this news, and I don’t know the details.  But, the safety will be a big issue during the election.  Even Kathmandu is not safe, and the city stops functioning upon one call from the Maoists.  Factories get closed; schools do not function.

Election is the right vehicle to uphold the hard-fought democracy of 1990, but there has to be an environment for this election to take place.  Election for the sake of election will invite bigger problem.  A staged election, especially, will invite more carnage and bigger wrath.  We will all be doomed.  We must focus on peace and then election.  That’s why we have urged the Maoists to come forward again.

Bohara:  An unified front of all the constitutional forces is better equipped to deal with the Maoists, and if so, why not revive the House to bring one of the largest parties NC(Girija) into your coalition fold?

DPM Adhikari:  Peace is the need of the hour and our failure to achieve it will not only affect the current government, but the very existence of this nation is at stake.  We invited the NC (G) to join the government.  We even asked him (Girija Koirala, former Prime Minister and the president of the NC (G) party) to join the peace committee.  We are still open.  Deuba (personally) invited Girija to be a part of the peace committee.  Girija has been adamant about this issue (not joining the government).

About the House revival, it is not entirely an objectionable issue.  But without a cooperative attitude (from Girija) on other matters (e.g., support for Madhav Nepal), he has made it very hard for us to reciprocate.  A singular focus on the issue of the House revival by Girija, while the country is on the brink of disaster, is simply sad, and his action is simply just beyond me.

Jha:     Given the fact that the last twelve years have been full of turmoil and with a turnover of 12 PMs in as many years, what can you do, and what have you learned?

DPM Adhikari:          I do not disagree with your feeling and you are not alone.  We as a party have had discussions about this, and we are ready to analyze and accept our responsibility.  But a menacing problem (insurgency) is at our doorstep, and we must handle that with urgency.  The house is burning and the boat is sinking, and the parties like the NC(G) and the Jan Morcha seem totally ambivalent.

The current government represents close to 80% of the total House of Representatives. For the sake of the country and the people, we even gave them (Girija) an option of joining the peace committee without necessarily being a part of the government.  He still refused.

S. Gautam:     I would like to make two points.  The Maoists are expressing their views (and demands) through media.  (1) What if they fail to come forward for a talk, and (2) Do we know what the government’s bottom line is?

DPM Adhikari:          I think you are hinting about the Constituent Assembly.  We are not afraid to talk about any issue as long as there is sincerity in presentation.  But the fact that we have two armed factions (the Royal Nepal Army and the Maoists) engaged in a deadly game of killing, it is important to be careful as to how we approach the negotiation process.  Starting with the most sensitive issue like the Constituent Assembly at the very outset of the negotiation process will create tension.  Beginning with the less sensitive issues, on the other hand, will help initiate the confidence building process.  We can do all that discreetly. 

Let’s find some (less sensitive) agreeable common issues first and build some trust.   After that, we can begin to move into tougher areas like the Constituent Assembly.  The bottom line is that we must come together for a common goal (peace), else we will all be doomed.

Pahari:  The Maoists are targeting the political parties and the cadres especially at the grass root level.  How are you affected as an organization?

DPM Adhikari:  The UML is a strong party and quite vibrant at the grass root level too.  We have been conducting our business as usual (meetings).  You should not fall for the Maoists’ propaganda.  But the danger posed by the Maoists is real and no one is safe; everyone will lose – King, people, us, Girija…everyone.  This country may end up becoming like Afghanistan.  The UML is organized and has taken the decision to join the government after much discussion with everyone including those at the grass root level.  We are still a very organized party all the ways down to the local level.

G. Gautam:  During the earlier two (failed) negotiations, the Maoists put forth three conditions:  an all-party government, a round table discussion, and Constituent Assembly.   The two conditions out of the three were accepted by the previous government.   Constituent Assembly was a sticky issue and it was not debated.  If the peace process starts today, are you going to debate this issue?

DPM Adhikari:          I don’t mean to be critical about the earlier effort and there is some lessons to be learnt, but the Maoists came with a fanfare and focused more on the style rather than the substance.  It was a mistake to have conducted the peace process in this manner (open circus).  Talks should have been discreet.

I will not divulge the details about our strategy, but I can assure that we will be flexible, and will take an approach of give-and-take.  We should focus on the agreements (points we agree on) rather than the differences. Importantly, we need to set aside the difficult issue (e.g., Constituent Assembly) and focus on the easier issues.

Bohara:           We have had our problems during the last 12 years (of democracy) and we did have some achievements as well.  But, the centralized political and fiscal power (in Kathmandu) has been one of the sources of the discontent.  Regional governments (federalism) and the proportional representation system of election can empower the people and give them more accountability and decision making power (across the regions).  What can’t we think along this line to find solutions to our problems?

DPM Adhikari:          These are good points, and we should start talking about them.  In addition, social justice (Dalit and women’s plight), cultural harmony, and corruption control are the kinds of things that should be discussed at the round table.  But we can’t do it without them (the Maoists) coming forward for a talk.  We are missing out on the development and progress, and the World Bank and other development partners are ready to invest billions.  You should continue to give suggestions like these, and we should welcome them.

G. Gautam:     The government is not ready to implement a ceasefire, whereas your party UML seems inclined to do so.  Why is this discrepancy between the two coalition parties?

DPM Adhikari:          Even during the Vietnam War, the Americans paused (the war) during the Christmas.  It should not be that difficult to do so during our own Dahaisn and Tihar.  We are discussing it, and have not made a decision.  There will always be minor discrepancy in views, because you are dealing with “big” personalities. 

G. Adhikary:    The militarization of the Nepal Army is getting a good hold.  Is the Army positive about the peace process?

DPM Adhikari:    We should be focusing on the positive aspects and promote peace (and reconciliation).  I too have felt some uneasiness, and that’s why we need to push for peace.

Bohara:  In case if the peace negotiation does not materialize in Nepal, what do you think about a peace conference by a body like the NRN (in the U.S. e.g.,)?  How would it be viewed by those in Nepal?  A good number of participants from Nepal (second tier leaders belonging to various factions including the Maoists) would come together to prepare a middle-of-the-road peace plan.  Such conferences have been organized at Notre Dame during the era of Pinochet of Chile.

DPM Adhikari:          We are open to suggestions and will welcome (such) ideas.  Please help us with seminars, conferences, emails, and by writing letters to the Prime Minister, parties, and the Maoists as well.  We need all the help we can get.

G. Gautam:     Can we give this copy of the interview transcript to the news media?

DPM Adhikari:  Of course.  Please engage and put pressure through your activities. Thank you.

Pahari:  I would like to make my last comment.  This time our topic of conversation was about the peace process.  When we meet next time, we will hopefully talk about the success of the peace process. 

DPM Adhikari:  I hope so too, and thank you again.  

S. Gautam:  One final question, if I may.  It seems that the government and civil society are thinking seriously on this whole issue in thinking ahead of Maoist rather than following programs after Maoist do or spell out (for example, recruitment of women in armed force, idea of decentralizations etc.)
 
DPM Adhikari:  At this point let's not think who is following whom, but talk about peace.

Interview ends.